Official Luthiers Forum!

I know this has come up more than once, but again...
How difficult and expensive is it to make one?
Does anyone have plans and/or photos for one?
If I don't have the time or space to make one, what is lowest end model one would dare to go for thicknessing backs and sides?
Does it work to get a narrower one (10-12") and flip the wood around to get both sides for joined tops and backs?
Thanks
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

the are photos in the archives. it would also help to have a look at mimf's library fo plans and discussions. there are many versions there.

it can be very cheap, even free, depending on your access to materials and useful things like a motor, or it can be a significant expense. but it should always be cheaper than buying a suitable machine unless you happen onto one of the once in a lifetime bargains that makes others drool and froth at the mouth in envy.

as far as difficulty is concerned, for the simpler designs the skills necessary are just the basic woodworking skills used for any of your guitar jig making and simple electrical wiring. if you elect to make a more complex machine some simple metalworking may be involved.

There is also an old article in fine woodworking. I think that Cumpiano used that article to design his which he has since modified to a wide belt sander. I might be able to dig it up.

Shane

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Canada

I made the one from finewoodworking years ago and it just about gave me a heart attack on several occasions. It actually threw a set of sides from my driveway to my neighbors roof. I tore it apart and bought one after that. This is not to say that it can't be done but consider your and others safety when you are building it. Make sure you use some sort of hold down mechanism for the wood being sanded.John How39049.5680902778

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Ahhhhh! Experience with these things always ends with wisdom! I have a purchased one, I like making things but just didn't have the time for this. The picture in my mind of you standing there watching you sides fly up onto your neighbors roof has me rolling the floor!! I can just see the look on your face with the "What the ...." expression!

Thanks John!

Glad no one was hurt!

Shane

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Canada

About the 'safety' issue (sides flung out of sander, etc.)- If you want to treat the sander like a thickness planer, better get a commercial version with power feed so you can just put the wood in the front and have it come out the back. If you are thinking of a sander as a substitute for hand work, you should have more patience and take lighter cuts and avoid excitement. Just keep thinking of how long it would take to thickness those sides with a hand scraper, and take your time!

If you have a motor already (1/3 hp and up), and a reasonable scrap lumber pile, you should be able to put together a sander for $50 or so with a weekend's work.
John

I made a thickness sander and it worked fine, but I would suggest just biting the bullet and buying a delta or performax. The factory built machines make everything much easier and ultimately quicker. Since I bought my delta, I have cannibalized my homebuilt sander for parts.

as far as the smallest model question, you can flip the pieces on an open-end sander like the performax 10-20, but unless your table and drum are perfectly parallel you'll get a ridge or dip in the middle of a wide board, but this could easily be sanded out.

Hope this helps

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Matt Jacobs

"Don't tase me bro"

These things can be simple or elaborate as Michael says. Here is mine, clearly in the former category. I looked at several designs over on MIMF and elsewhere on the web, made some quick sketches and built this thing over a couple of nights.

The frame is mainly made from 2"x4" 's and particle board, jointed by simple mortise and tenons and a screwed on shelf to help with the stability. The motor is a 3 phase 1 1/2 hp, which is plenty of power for this machine. It has the "armstrong" feed type. It is important with a steady feed rate to avoid unevenness, but I have been very happy with my results so far and for my small operation that is what matters.

The drum is made out of particle board disks. It is 150 mm ( 6") by 600 mm (24") long on a 30 mm (1 1/4") steel rod with bronze bushing bearings. I happened to have this laying around, it is certainly sturdy enough! I made the drum by sawing a sheet of particle board into several square pieces of 150 x 150 mm, drilled a 30 mm hole in the middle, and cut them all into circular shape on my band saw with a simple jig that had a 30 mm "spindle". The disks were then glued to the rod with epoxy, and the drum was trued by slowly raising the table with 80 grit paper on it to the drum. The drum assembly had to be shimmed on one side to level it as much as possible to the table to avoid sanding it into a slight cone shape. The table is 3 sheets of particle board screwed together, the top one is melamine covered, for a total of 60 mm (almost 2 1/2"), with a piano hinge along the back edge. It has stayed nice and flat and true to the drum.

The dust cover is plywood, with glued in triangular wood in the corners to get is as close as possible to the drum shape on the inside. I use a 100 mm flexible pipe connected to my dust collector.

If you design the covers for the drum, pulleys and belts so you can't reach any moving parts, these machines should be pretty safe. The biggest danger is probably trying to take a too big bite at a time or trying to sand too short pieces, which can turn the sander into an extremely effective catapult (ask John!). Of course they also kick up a ton of dust, so a good dust collector is a must.


Here is a snapshot (with the cover off):

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Mine looks almost identical to Arnt's.





Scrap wood. I turned the drum from a piece of 4x4 pine. It will sand up to 22" wide. I paid about $200 for a 1 1/2 hp motor (1725 rpm) and that is about the total cost. I covered the drum with velcro backing so it is easy to change paper. I've done three guitars now and haven't had to change the paper yet. Haven't had any problem with it kicking anything back, but I carefully check where it is set before inserting the piece to be sanded. The dust control works very well also.   I'm very pleased with it.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Ron, is your drum 1:1 with the motor?

Whats the ideal rpm? It probably varies with the type of wood, I suppose.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
What I learned on my guitar building journey was that having a thickness sander, either home grown or commercial purchased or access to either of these is a must for the serious guitar builder.
[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute, I thought just the other day you talked about the joys of using you nice Record plane and making clean, curly shavings instead of ugly dust...?

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I was going to show a pic of my shop-made thickness sander, but can`t seem to find it in my computer. It is in the archives somewhere.
Concerning the speed of your drum, you should consider surface feet per minute, and remember that too fast on the drum speed will scorch and burn both wood and abrasives. Ask me how I know this.
FWIW, I have a 9" diameter drum running at approximately 900 rpm.
Like Hesh said, these machines are indespensable for our craft.
Don`t forget the dust control. These things are notorious for making an unhealthy amount of dust.

Coe

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I asked the same question last July - do a search on "Drum Sander Advice" for more good feedback.
I ended up making my own and it has been just fantastic.
The following site provided lots of good detail.

http://www.rockslide.org/drum%20sander.html

Yes, it can be dangerous - but as another post has said, if I take it easy, and take 20 passes to achieve the goal instead of 5 or 10, then it is safe, and I just remind myself of how long it would have taken the "old way". Sand paper life is also extended.

It also works great for thicknessing oversized nut and saddle blanks with the use of a carrier board holder type thingamajig.
Tim

The main problem with home made sanders is to have a consistent feed rate. A feed belt would be nice. Does anyone has a working system?
Arnt, what is the Armstrong feed?

Hesh,
a very simple crude jig. Flat board with a sort of fence made of thin scrap glued around the roughed blank.You can add as many blanks to the board as you wish I do it 1 at a time as to not waste material.It works for me.Get close to the thickness and finish by hand for the final fit.Hope the pic came out if not I will try it again. Hope that helps.
Tim

that is an oversized nut blank in the pic but will work for saddles to.you can make the board longer if you want I barely hit mine with the drum so it is stable.never had it shoot out of the sander.Didn't think about it while taking the picSorry about the orientation it should go in the sander lengthwise TimDet39049.9272337963

Alain, I think this is Arnt's armstrong feed system



This is a picture of Arnt by the way (he's very modest and will tell you it's not him though )

I have the same feed system but mine's not nearly as strong as Arnt's is
I would desperatly like to figure out a good power feed system to make.

I think one day though that I would like to spend the money and get either a general double drum or of course a double belt 24" (Ya right! dream on buddy )

I have a semi-home built sander. I drew up the plans when I worked at a steel fab shop and some of the guys built it for me. It has a 5" machined steel drum and all steel frame and support for the deck. right now I have a 3/4" MDF on it, but think I need a second piece with malamine or laminate on the feed deck. 1hp motor, need beter dust collection though, but the large shop vac is ok, just wear a dust mask and run the air cleaner.

Here's a pic. The cover is off it here as I was probably sanding the ends of a bridge, it's handy for that.

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[QUOTE=j.Brown] Ron, is your drum 1:1 with the motor?

Whats the ideal rpm? It probably varies with the type of wood, I suppose.[/QUOTE]


J. it is 1:1. The finished drun diameter is just under 4 inches, and the speed works well with b/s or tops. Actually it probably is 4" with the velcro and sandpaper.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

As Coe mentioned above "surface feet per minute" is what you want to look at. I just checked out the Grizzly site and their drum sanders run from 2300 to 4000 SFM. The bigger higher HP sanders ran at the higher SFM. I calculated Coe's drum (9" @ 900 rpm) and came up with 2122 SFM. Probably about right. For a 6" diameter you would need 1350 rpm to get 2120 SFM. For a 4" diameter you'd need 2028 rpm. Just a fer instance. The smaller the drum, the faster you got to spin it.

Kirt

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Horton, MI

If you are not building a high volume, consider the Wagner Safety Planer. I love mine and it does the job very well without the cost and problems having a dedicated piece of equipment (IMHO). I will build between 16-20 per year myself in batches of 4-5 a time. I set up and do all my thicknessing at one time for each batch. The whole set up was about $75.00. I then use an Orbital sander and flat vibrating sander to rough finish.

Food for thought

Mike